I haven’t made much of an attempt online in recent years to argue the morality of homosexuality. After years of dealing with hateful bigots, I decided instead to cut them out of my life and disengage. Hate is illogical and can’t be reasoned with. But this one set me off and I responded to it.
I am posting my response here, as the author of that blog will most certainly delete my response from his page (funny how facts and common sense are usually censored by narrow-minded bigoted assholes).
“Jesus condemned homosexuality throughout the Old Testament.”
If you are unaware of your glaring error here, there is no help for you. But I’ll continue anyway.
“Jesus condemned homosexuality throughout the New Testament. ”
Um, no. He didn’t. Please quote the scripture for me where Jesus refers to homosexuality. And if you are going to quote the verse where he affirms all the OT laws to still be valid, then you’re opening a whole can of worms on all kinds of dietary codes and commandments even the most “fundamentalist” Christians no longer follow.
It can be argued that Paul spoke against homosexuality (though those passages are actually dealing with pederasty, rape, and prostitution and not consenting adults who love each other–the word “homosexual” was nowhere in the bible until the 1950s), but Paul also thought Jesus was returning in his lifetime and essentially told everyone to abstain from sex. Oh, he also said women shouldn’t speak in church, and that women should cover their hair in public. How many women in your church abide by that?
What DID Jesus talk about? Divorce. Several times, in fact. Divorce is expressly forbidden by Christ himself. Yet how many of you homophobic bigots are divorced and remarried? How many of you are fighting to make divorce illegal or write its prohibition into the Constitution?
Oh, and you guys REALLY need a theme other than the Sodom and Gomorrah story. That little tale doesn’t hold up even to the slightest amount of scrutiny. https://recoveredbaptist.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/the-gross-and-creepy-story-of-lot/
I have much more respect for Fred Phelps than I do for people like you. At least they make their hatred of gays crystal clear. You hate gays too. Just admit it. Stop trying to hide behind your religion to justify yourself. Stop pretending your bible says it is okay to judge and condemn gays while conveniently forgetting/disregarding everything it tells you about your own life. Just admit that you hate gays and that we ick you out.
[Oh, and as a bonus, here is my response from a different blog, where the same blogger tried to justify condemnation of gays while insisting other OT rules/restrictions don’t apply to him:]
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17-18)
Jesus never once nullified any of the barbarism or laws of the OT. You can’t weasel out of those clearly stated “abominations” so easily.
Jesus also never explicitly discussed homosexuality, either. That was Paul. But Paul also hated Jews and women, and condemned pretty much all sexual relationships. Paul states that essentially the only reason to even get married is if you are unable to control/repress sexual desires. “But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” (1 Corinthians 7:9)
Paul also makes it clear that women shouldn’t speak in churches. I hope there are no female Sunday School teachers (let alone ministers or deacons) in Dogtag’s church. “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)
Jesus himself did discuss divorce, though. He mentioned it several times. Matthew 19:9: “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
That’s the one that really gets me. How many of these anti-gay bigots have been married multiple times (Limbaugh, Gingrich, etc.) ? How many of them are fighting for an amendment to abolish divorce? How many are donating time, money and energy to get their state government to ban divorce?
Hint: none of them are. Most “fundamentalists” like Dogtags will spend their entire lives twisting the scripture to fit their own prejudices, and then ignore lots of other scripture because it inconveniences them (Matthew 7:4: Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?).
They will ignore the entirety of the Sermon on the Mount (Mathew 5-7) and rant about OT stories (“Adam and Eve/not Adam and Steve!” or “Homosexuality destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah!”), but then back off of the OT (as Dogtags just did) as soon as they realize the people they’re arguing with are familiar with scripture (“That doesn’t count! Those are old laws! They don’t apply anymore!” they will scream). They use and discard random bible quotes when it is convenient for them, and cannot be reasoned with. For Pete’s sake; Dogtags even spent a paragraph above discussing the “nuances of slavery” and how it was different in the bible. How this justifies ANY kind of slavery is beyond me.
Clare, nothing you or I can write or say will ever change this guy’s mind. He is either a closet gay in denial (I remember those days myself), or he simply just hates gays. Hate is irrational and cannot be reasoned with.
And Dogtags, I don’t claim to be a biblical scholar, but here’s the deal. My father is a minister. I was raised going to church 3 times a week (including Sunday School). I went to more revivals, summer camps, and youth retreats than you can possibly imagine. I attended Oklahoma Baptist University, where scripture classes were mandatory basic curriculum. Both my father and sister are in the clergy. I have studied the bible and know it well.
You came to this blog with the express purpose of putting down gay and trans people. I don’t believe you can be reasoned with, no. I’m sure you will do some mental acrobatics and try to refute what I’ve written here. But know this: you are not dealing with illiterate fools here.
So if you want to go another round? Bring it.